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        Extract from oral history of Tom Fitzgerald by Ken Inglis
      John Curtin Prime Ministerial Library. Records 
        of the National Library of Australia. Interview of Tom Fitzgerald, 01/02/1988 - 3/09/1988. JCPML00658/1. Original held by National Library of Australia 
        TRC 2247 
       Tom Fitzgerald: Peter Abeles was then a relatively unknown 
        businessman with a smallish trucking business in Chippendale quite near 
        Francis James’ printery. By some process Peter Abeles and I became 
        quite friendly. And he, quite early in the piece, no later, I think, than 
        1960, strongly urged me to make Nation into a self-supporting 
        business. He would give financial support to setting up Nation 
        with a view to becoming a weekly. He said, 'You must become a weekly because 
        otherwise somebody else will.' And he disclaimed any concern about the 
        editorial policy, no wish to interfere with that. He thought that I should, 
        I think, break away from the Herald and become, myself, dependent 
        on the income from the business. This was a very difficult decision to 
        take and I still occasionally wonder whether I made the right decision. 
        I had no reason to doubt his goodwill. None at all.  
      There were many, many strands of almost irreconcilable consideration, 
        pro and con. George strictly refused to offer an opinion, left it to me. 
        I sensed, however, that he on balance probably would prefer to go on as 
        we were. That was in a way, you might say, a soft option. The alternative 
        was death or glory. You’d either make it or you wouldn’t and 
        it would be over fairly quickly I think.  
      We had a very informal way of running the place. The keeping of records 
        was minimal. The tax people were quite happy to treat the net difference 
        between outgoings and incomings of money as your income. And possibly 
        already by the time Peter Abeles made this suggestion, on that cash in 
        and out basis, Nation was showing a loss. Which I was able to 
        offset against my taxable income. For that reason I decided not to incorporate 
        Nation, make it my personal property so that I could use its 
        losses as an offset against my salary. And that over the life of Nation 
        must have contributed quite a lot to our finances. 
      Maurice Isaacs, as our solicitor, honorary solicitor was very worried 
        about that. The risks to my person in libel cases. But the alternative 
        would have been that, had Nation been sued and bankrupted, well 
        the thing was over anyway and on the whole I think that was alright..... 
      Ken Inglis: The Australian started in 1964, after you’d 
        been going since 1958, and I think it was generally observed that the 
        Australian picked up a lot and carried on a lot that Nation 
        had started? 
      Tom Fitzgerald: I would not have made much of that, that the 
        paper picked up things we had started, but certainly some of our valued 
        contributors, people who had come to us, unknown to us, and given us very 
        good material, did join the Australian, in its early idealistic 
        phase, or when people thought it was going to be a great... a great new 
        vehicle for enlightened journalism. Among those people who having first 
        written for us and went over to the Australian were Brian Johns, 
        Ken Gott, and I dare say there were others. [Other Nation contributors 
        who went to the Australian were Robin Boyd, Robert Hughes, Maxwell Newton 
        (the Australian’s first editor), Max Harris.] Now I think it would 
        be a bit exaggerated to say that Murdoch really is correct in thinking 
        that they made their paper into a kind of Nation. I think they 
        were trying to create a great national daily that was a bit more thoughtful 
        than than the going newspaper.  
      Ken Inglis: Murdoch had said as a matter of complaint that the 
        Australian was too much like a daily Nation, is that 
        right? 
      Tom Fitzgerald: Yes. Yes, apparently he had said that. I heard 
        that, and you may have heard it too, and it seemed to me to be one of 
        Murdoch’s... as I’ve said before, there are areas in which 
        Murdoch is blind. 
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